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As the published intro explained, Greg and I double-teamed the everloquacious Chuck D at Public Enemy HQ in Hempstead, Strong Island, inthe early autumn of 1991. That's three decades ago now, when it wasreasonable to expect Village Voice readers to be intimate withthe controversy initially ignited by Public Enemy's off-and-on,in-and-out, and eventually gone Minister of Information ProfessorGriff's interview with David Mills of the Washington Times--acontroversy few under 50 now recall. The curious should take a look atthis wide-ranging 1989 summation by RJ Smith, then the not yetwell-respected biographer (James Brown, Robert Frank, soon ChuckBerry!!) and historian (The Great Black Way) who Chuck D treatsto an uncontextualized "I don't like that motherfucker" toward theend; it provides a glimpse of what was involved, ignited above all bythe unmistakable, unforgivable, and radically uninformed anti-Semitismof Griff's remarks (which it's only fair to note he did eventuallyapologize for--sort of).

CHUCK D: On this album. I might just bug out on the nextone. But when I bug out, it's going to hit 85 to 90 per cent of theplaces. It might not hit here [points to New York] at all. But give methe rest, I'll take it. Fear of a Black Planet was the mostsuccessful album we had--not because of all the hype and hysteria. Itwas a world record. Because of all the different feels and thedifferent textures and the flow it had, I can do it--get the samefeeling [more pointing] here, here, here, here, you know what I'msaying? Just in L.A., a kid is breaking down the rappers fromdifferent areas and he says, "Public Enemy, man, ain't even like y'allfrom New York. It's like y'all from somefuckingwhere--like, you'refucking everywhere." I say, "Well, we are from everywhere, and itreflects in our music, and it reflects in our lyrics, you know." I'm aperson--I ride on Greyhound through the middle. I ride Greyhoundthrough Arkansas and Arizona. I'll sit on Greyhound for hours justlistening to my music, look out the window and write, you know. Yo, Ijust drove--went down to Disneyworld. I could drive like--see, there'salways a job in the business. Let's say they say, "Chuck, you out ofthe business," man, I'll be a bus driver. I know the fucking roads,man.

CHUCK D: Well, sometimes I just like to go in my fuckingbasement and just fucking watch fucking TV or videotapes. I can'treally watch too many movies. I usually like watching sports. I watchsports, you know--

CHUCK D: Music and sports. I can't watch movies, really,except for black movies. I just seen Livin' Large yesterday andyou know, to the average person it might be like a three-cent movie,but I had a good time watching it. You know, me and a couple of thebrothers' families went out. I said, yeah, that's some kind ofdope.

CHUCK D: Not for me at all. I like blues more thanjazz. 'Cause blues deals with lyrics--more feeling, you know what I'msaying? And it has so much ironic twist in it--it's usually about theslightest shit that black people talk about, you know, day by day. AndI do a lot of hanging in places like down South, Louisiana,Mississippi, and Atlanta.

CHUCK D: Well, you know, musically it moves me, butlyrically, man, I'll be like saying, Goddamn. And that's why I try tomove a lot of rapping and rap music the same. At the end of the day, Idon't know what the fuck you write about, just make somebody just say,Damn, you know. That is a good point of view, you know what I'msaying? I mean, look at N.W.A.--you might not agree with what the fuckthey're saying, but you at least know at the end of the song, like,yo, these motherfuckers meant what they're saying, you know?

CHUCK D: It's important to be positive because you got tounderstand, the only time the structure wants to put anybody black upthere in the spotlights if we are athletes or entertainers. If all theathletes and entertainers are going to get projected like that, we'vegot to say, damn, we've got a little bit more responsibility than theaverage white musician that comes along and just wants to talk abouthis dick. 'Cause we've got to say, all right, yeah, this is a story totell, but at the same time, this is probably going to be the result ofit. I mean, I talk about a drive-by, I might start drive-bys inSt. Louis. That's a tight line, and we've got to deal with it, 'causewe're going to be listened, watched, and followed a lot closer than alot of white kids.

CHUCK D: 'Cause I see the fucking results of it. And you gotto have a structure in the society, in the school system, that's ableto say well, this is the right, and this is the wrong. We could saythat families are supposed to do it, but we ain't got family the wayit's supposed to be. So I mean, we've got to go to a school orstructure that can teach us family.

CHUCK D: I'm saying, you know, people have to be taught howto do certain things. And then, let's go back to the music, thepositive and the negative. A guy's going to talk negative shit becausethat's what he sees. Rappers only talk what they know. I mean,sometimes you've got people going off into the fantasy world, like theGeto Boys when they talk about mind playing tricks on me, Chuckie andstuff like that, and make analogies saying, well, you can't talk aboutme because, hey, all those fucking crazy movies coming out an nobody'sgetting any heat for that. But we have a double-edged sword hangingover our head, a guillotine, that's saying, well, we do this, we'regoing to be followed--you know, people going to do this shit inreality. And I believe that.

'Cause, I mean, everywhere I go, I mean, I go to prisons, and, youknow, brothers--if they get no guidance from zero to 16, they're goingto follow something that can relate to them best. And if something canrelate to them best that they really, really like, they're going tofollow it. They're going to say, "I got to kick this motherfuckertonight." Boom, boom, boom. And later on, they'll be like, "Damn,damn." Like that brother that got to go to the fucking joint now forkilling that Jewish guy. And ain't nobody fucking behind him now. Hegotta go to the fucking joint. He gonna get fried. Somebody didn'ttell him to put his brain in gear. Now he's gotta suffer theconsequences. I feel sorry for him. Because I've talked to a lot ofbrothers in jail and usually brothers in jail are in forimpulse. Boom!

That's why I started talking about the "1 Million Bottle Bags."Because I tell you a lot of shit be starting off because of distortedthinking like, damn, usually brothers that know each other, be likedrinking. They be like, "What you say?" "I ain't say shit, man." "Yourfucking mother." And then somebody got a fucking nine or Uzi in theterritory, and the shit escalate to even a higher pitch, couple ofpeople in there going, "Yo, just, chill, chill, chill." And sometimesyou get, you know, "Fuck that, motherfucker." And it all be startingup because motherfuckers is fucked up.

CHUCK D: Yeah, I mean I briefed it on him. You know, hesaid, "Yo, man, just trying to get out of it." Trying to stop it, buthe's contracted. I said, "Yo, Cube, hey, there ain't nothing againstyou, I mean, it's your thing, your guilt thing, but you should havehad quality control." The people at St. Ides said, "Well, we reallyrespect you Chuck D, you know." I told 'em I don't respect y'all, fucky'all. I see the results. I'm not just fucking reading stats. You'rein the black community, you can run, you can't hide. There ain'tnowhere you can go and live and say, well, I'm going to be far awayfrom it. Nowhere.

I'm seeing results whether it be Memphis, Houston, St. Louis,Chicago, Detroit--it could be the smaller fucking cities. I'll takeyou right in the 'Velt, Roosevelt--one square mile. Got 14 delis inthere, and every single deli got Ice Cube's poster. The people say,"Well, why do you give so much of a damn?" Because I've got to live inthis motherfucker. And I'm grown. Once you're over 18, fun and gamesgot to be put to number three. Responsibility and business got to beone and two and you can have fun and games and shit, but once youunderstand those number one and two things, you understand that funand games are being played on your ass. I tell motherfuckers in aminute, you can be hardcore and be positive. Thieves and pimps andmurderers, man, motherfuckers got to pay a penalty. The problem isthat some white boy coming in and trying to remedy the situation andwe need to start doing it ourselves. The more grown people you havethat understand they're adults and take control of their community,the less bullshit you have coming in. And you used to have somethinglike that until quote unquote so-called integration.

CHUCK D: It was a time, right. It was hardcore. Hardcorewill never die and need to come back. You can be positive in thehardcore. Hardcore got this connotation that other people put on it ofsaying that it's negative and no, no--hardcore, it's like you takingcontrol. I tell brothers, you say you hard, but your life harder thanyou. How hard can you be? Your life kicking you in the ass. Fuckingworld is harder than any motherfucker. 041b061a72


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